Terryl Givens Part II: The Importance of the Contemplative Life

Terryl Givens continues his story about what he does in his own life to foster a meditative approach to his faith. He explores his fascination with the aesthetic beauty of the unique doctrines of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Full Transcript

Faith Is Not Blind: Welcome to part two of our interview with Terryl Givens. Terryl, in part one we had talked a little bit about your conversion to the Church and you had talked about our religion’s intellectual appeal to you. Would you like to say a little bit more about that? 

Terryl: Well, there’s a problem with the word “intellectual.” It sounds a bit pretentious and stuffy and sometimes it can be very off-putting. So I wish there were a better word for it. I guess maybe I would talk about its “radical resonance.” I’ve heard somebody else use that word. But the thing is, the Latter-day Saint faith has what I consider to be the most profoundly satisfying intellectually rigorous system of thought associated with it of any religious tradition I’ve studied. I finished a two volume history of Mormon thought, and I came away from that study more convinced than ever that it is almost impossible to fully appreciate the majesty and the clarity and the logical consistency of Joseph Smith’s restored system of thought. With all due deference to other faith traditions. I believe there is much beauty and goodness and virtue and value to be had in studying other faith traditions. But when you consider that the Catholic Church has taken two thousand years, for example, to come to the recognition that maybe babies who die unbaptised aren’t damned. Or that the Evangelical world is finally, after hundreds and hundreds of years, talking about how maybe God can feel our pain and suffer with us. And other Christian denominations are, for the first time in centuries, starting to talk again about theosis--maybe we are really being invited to become like God. Original sin is officially a doctrine of every creed of Christianity outside of the Latter-day Saint faith. But none of them are talking about original sin and inherited depravity anymore because it so violates our innate sense  of justice. And Joseph Smith was there almost two centuries ago--the comprehensiveness of The Plan, the grounding in an eternal pre-existence of the human soul, which almost all people respond to intuitively as a truth. And yet it was anathematized in the sixth century. Just wherever you turn, it seems to me that Latter Day Saint doctrines are the most intellectually appealing, rationally appealing and intellectually defensible of all the tenets of Christianity.

I know that many millennials especially bridle at the phrase ‘the only true and living church,” and I think that can create an impression of triumphalism and exceptionalism and pride. But on the other hand, if you consider that officially Latter-day Saints are members of the only church that officially preach an eternal preexistence of the soul, a Heavenly Father who is passible, who feels our pain, a Heavenly Mother who lives in union with a Heavenly Father, a Plan of Salvation that envisions the eventual salvation of the entire human family without any barriers erected by death, the family as an eternal unit. So there is something fairly unique about this conglomeration of doctrines taken together--let alone any one of them--which would stand as the sole exception to nineteenth-century beliefs. 

Faith Is Not Blind: With that expansive vision of all of the things in our theology that appeal to you, what about the role and the place of doubt for those who are experiencing doubt with various issues, doctrinally or otherwise?

Terryly: Well, “doubt” has become one of the most controversial of terms in modern Latter-day Saint discourse. One can cite any number of authorities out of context saying that doubt is evil, and any number of authorities out of context saying that doubt is an essential part of discipleship. And I can quote them on both sides. But I think one way of thinking about the differences is are we talking about “Doubt with a capital D” or “doubt with a small d?” If we mean doubt as a life position--“I'm going to adopt this position of skepticism and disbelief”--then no, I don’t think that’s enjoined or healthy anywhere. 

But if we acknowledge the legitimacy of challenges to our understanding that may arise in any one moment, that’s part of discipleship. It seems to me that the Gospels are replete with examples of people like the father who says, “I believe, help thou mine unbelief.” That seems to be pretty scriptural truth that both conditions can coexist in tension. The fact that the Restoration began because Joseph doubted his own spiritual standing. He doubted the validity of contemporary Christian traditions, so it seems to me that we should embrace opportunities to revisit questions and beliefs in order to secure a deeper, more profound understanding from time to time. So I think we should be prepared to live with a condition of what I would say is perpetual cognitive dissonance in some ways. I don't think that Mormonism pretends to settle all questions and all theological matters.It doesn't. I was struck again this morning reading in the Book of Mormon where there's a prophecy in 2nd Nephi that we interpret as referring to Joseph Smith. And it says that “it shall come to pass that he should bring about much restoration.” And that’s a key phrase. It doesn’t say “all the restoration.” It  says “bring about much.” And so this is an ongoing project that we have to be vested in personally as well as institutionally it seems to me. 

Faith Is Not Blind: What would you say are some practical ways to help people that are are struggling intellectually or are struggling personally with their faith?

Terryl: I think if we take to heart the counsel of Elder Eyring--a past Elder Eyring, I think Elder Eyring’s father--who said the Lord will never require us to believe anything that isn't true. And so if we believe him, I think we can just relax and not be frightened by challenges or questions. But I also know that sometimes we will have to live with that cognitive dissonance. In my own case, I’ve accepted that. I love the reading that the Latter-day Saint tradition gives to Adam and Eve. It’s radically unlike anything. It’s not only because it's optimistic and positive, but it’s also because we don't see their condition in the Garden of Eden as having to choose between good and evil, which is kind of the primal story. No. For Latter-day Saints, they have to choose between good and good. Are we going to stay in the Garden and be faithful and live forever in this condition or are we going to do that which is necessary to have numerous posterity and eat from the tree? So the fact that from the get-go the human condition in which Adam and Eve find themselves is a condition of cognitive dissonance would seem to be contrary imperatives. And so that seems to me a key--that that's going to be the tenor of our lives. We will have to learn to weigh and to wrestle with what seemed to be competing demands made of our intellect.

Faith Is Not Blind: What can we do to prepare ourselves to live that way? Because I think people have certain tolerances for ambiguity. As an English Professor, I’ve noticed that people in our field tend to have a high tolerance for it. But it seems to me that there are others--just personality-wise--where it’s harder for them. What are some things that people can do on a practical level to help them with that cognitive dissonance?

Terryl: I think so. It disturbed me for a long time as a student of Mormon History that the Latter-day Saints don't have a history or a legacy of the contemplative life, the devotional life. I always thought that it was very sad that an early version of the Articles of Faith, Oliver Cowdery proposed an Article of Faith that said, “We believe in the same holiness to which people aspired in the primitive Church” and Joseph replaced that with “We believe in the same authority.”  But it has only occurred to me after years of thinking about this that our faith tradition leaves to us the freedom to chart our own devotional life. And I think that’s the lesson that I came to lat,  and I would like to see more people recognize that the Church is a resource and it is a portal through which those who have received the ordinances of salvation can pass into the next phase, but that the actual life of discipleship is ours individually. And so I hate the fact that we refer to “reading the scriptures and saying your prayers” as if those are these kind of empty, vacuous acts that we perform instead of thirsting and searching and hungering. 

And so I have tried in my own personal life to chart a very deliberate path of devotion that involves very personalized forms of worship and preparation and scripture study. And I try to make that the focus or the center of what it means for me to be a Latter-day Saint or a Christian disciple. And my relationship to the Church is secondary to that relationship which has to be grounded in Christ. Now I think if we get out of order, it’s very easy to disaffiliate from a Church that is imperfect and disappoints us. 

Faith Is Not Blind: Can I ask you a personal question? You talked about that personal and reflective path that you take. Could you describe in some way what your personal preparation is like?

Terryl:  Well. sure. We are told that we should treasure up the words of eternal life. What does that mean to treasure up? I was very impressed many years ago with a talk given by George Steiner, one of the greatest contemporary literary scholars. And he told the story of a woman who had been kept a prisoner in the Gulag for many years. And she kept her sanity because she knew so many poems by heart that she occupied her time translating them into all the languages she knew. And then he posed this question--he said, “With what temple furniture is your mind furnished?” And I thought, “What a great question.” For how many years could I occupy myself in solitary confinement? So I made it a project to try to daily memorize scriptures. So when I read the scriptures, I have in mind which scriptures have the power to inspire or transform me? And then I single those out and part of my daily--at least I aspire to make it daily--study is to memorize those and to commit them to heart so that they’re part of  the temple furniture of my mind. I think there are many beautiful hymns that are appropriate for private individualized worship. I think for me it has proven useful to have a  Prayer Book or a Revelation Book which is a blank book which I have ready on hand when I pray. And I do that not because I anticipate daily revelations, but because it’s a visible symbol that says I'm serious enough about this that I want to be prepared to record whatever impressions I do receive if I do receive something. So I guess those would be some examples of how I try to approach my daily devotion. 

Faith Is Not Blind: And those are wonderful examples and they start with you and they start with your devotion to God. And one of the things that we’ve noticed as we’ve done this podcast is that often with people who have been converted and who have gone through things, is that it  comes back to that relationship with God. That is always at the heart of it. And the Church facilitates it, but it is not the relationship. It’s something that helps it. 

Terryl: I’ve never encountered anyone who left the Church because they said, “Well, I just found that my relationship to Jesus just wasn’t very satisfying.” Well,  if that were the case and were legitimate, I’d say, “Well, I’d go too.”  

Faith Is Not Blind:Thank you so much. We really appreciate your time.

Terryl: Thanks for talking.